How to disable force, or make it very very very very hard to do?

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How to disable force, or make it very very very very hard to do?

real
We see every new smartgit user hit this near-catastrophe at some time:
1) They do a push and either press the "force" checkbox, or when the
"are you sure" dialog comes up that allows a force push, they push it.
2) a --force push has happened, the public repository has now lost
history, when this happens panic and outrage ensue
3) the call goes out to ban the use of smartgit in our orgainization
because it's too easy to force a push
Q1) Is there a way in smartgit to either A) turn off the force option so
it's not there at all, or B) make it really really really really really
hard for cause a --force push to happen?
Q2) If Q1 doesn't have an answer, do you know a way on the server (we're
using gitosis) to prevent forced push from happening on it?
We're continually in danger of having smartgit use banned, and I would
hate having to go back to the command line.  So an answer to Q1 or Q2
would be real nice.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: How to disable force, or make it very very very very hard to do?

Ben Vesco
I have been through the same thing in my organization.

Force push is not made easier or more dangerous by SmartGit. My team was
split between command line SmartGit and a few other graphical clients. We
actually saw more problems from command line people using force than from
graphical client people. The problem is not SmartGit, the problem is people
not understanding how dangerous the force push can be.

Ultimately we "solved" the problem by having two repositories. The release
repo was where everyone pulled from, but we had a dev repo that was forked
from there. Pushing was only done to the dev repo, no one had push rights to
the release repo. Code only went to the release repo through pull requests
from dev to release where a merge master would perform the merge and did
have write rights to the release repo.

Train your people not to use force push.

A review of your git process might also be in order. We had two teams
working on git. One team never had to do force pushes on anything and didn't
have these types of problems. The other team had people force pushing as a
regular part of their recovery process. The only difference between teams
was the process put in place for reviewing, merging and pushing code. The
team that didn't have problems had a sane and simple process. The other team
had a more involved process with multiple steps which made it likely to need
a force push or other recovery steps. Develop SCM process and practices for
git that will not require people to do force pushes.

Force push is not required when using git. You are experiencing a hybrid
problem that is one part training/understanding and one part
git fundamentals. You can't fix git, but you can fix training.


On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 12:13 PM, real <[hidden email]> wrote:

> **
>
>
> We see every new smartgit user hit this near-catastrophe at some time:
> 1) They do a push and either press the "force" checkbox, or when the
> "are you sure" dialog comes up that allows a force push, they push it.
> 2) a --force push has happened, the public repository has now lost
> history, when this happens panic and outrage ensue
> 3) the call goes out to ban the use of smartgit in our orgainization
> because it's too easy to force a push
> Q1) Is there a way in smartgit to either A) turn off the force option so
> it's not there at all, or B) make it really really really really really
> hard for cause a --force push to happen?
> Q2) If Q1 doesn't have an answer, do you know a way on the server (we're
> using gitosis) to prevent forced push from happening on it?
> We're continually in danger of having smartgit use banned, and I would
> hate having to go back to the command line. So an answer to Q1 or Q2
> would be real nice.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Re: How to disable force, or make it very very very very hard to do?

Prakash Nadar
While it is true that it is the people who use the force option, but I
have heard complains in my org as well who use SmartGit and force push
their changes.

So it looks like doing force push is easier on SmartGit than typing
--force on the CLI

Maybe SmartGit guys should make it less obvious to use the feature.



On 10/3/11 4:43 PM, "Ben Vesco" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>I have been through the same thing in my organization.
>
>Force push is not made easier or more dangerous by SmartGit. My team was
>split between command line SmartGit and a few other graphical clients. We
>actually saw more problems from command line people using force than from
>graphical client people. The problem is not SmartGit, the problem is
>people
>not understanding how dangerous the force push can be.
>
>Ultimately we "solved" the problem by having two repositories. The release
>repo was where everyone pulled from, but we had a dev repo that was forked
>from there. Pushing was only done to the dev repo, no one had push rights
>to
>the release repo. Code only went to the release repo through pull requests
>from dev to release where a merge master would perform the merge and did
>have write rights to the release repo.
>
>Train your people not to use force push.
>
>A review of your git process might also be in order. We had two teams
>working on git. One team never had to do force pushes on anything and
>didn't
>have these types of problems. The other team had people force pushing as a
>regular part of their recovery process. The only difference between teams
>was the process put in place for reviewing, merging and pushing code. The
>team that didn't have problems had a sane and simple process. The other
>team
>had a more involved process with multiple steps which made it likely to
>need
>a force push or other recovery steps. Develop SCM process and practices
>for
>git that will not require people to do force pushes.
>
>Force push is not required when using git. You are experiencing a hybrid
>problem that is one part training/understanding and one part
>git fundamentals. You can't fix git, but you can fix training.
>
>
>On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 12:13 PM, real <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>> We see every new smartgit user hit this near-catastrophe at some time:
>> 1) They do a push and either press the "force" checkbox, or when the
>> "are you sure" dialog comes up that allows a force push, they push it.
>> 2) a --force push has happened, the public repository has now lost
>> history, when this happens panic and outrage ensue
>> 3) the call goes out to ban the use of smartgit in our orgainization
>> because it's too easy to force a push
>> Q1) Is there a way in smartgit to either A) turn off the force option so
>> it's not there at all, or B) make it really really really really really
>> hard for cause a --force push to happen?
>> Q2) If Q1 doesn't have an answer, do you know a way on the server (we're
>> using gitosis) to prevent forced push from happening on it?
>> We're continually in danger of having smartgit use banned, and I would
>> hate having to go back to the command line. So an answer to Q1 or Q2
>> would be real nice.
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>  
>>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

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Re: How to disable force, or make it very very very very hard to do?

Mike Ralphson-2
I'd like to add my voice to those calling for a way to disable force on push.

In fact, I'd ideally like a beginner / expert setting in SmartGit
which disabled forced pushes, cherry picking, squashed merges and all
submodule options (unless the project currently has submodules).

Mike

On 4 October 2011 00:50, Prakash Nadar <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> While it is true that it is the people who use the force option, but I
> have heard complains in my org as well who use SmartGit and force push
> their changes.
>
> So it looks like doing force push is easier on SmartGit than typing
> --force on the CLI
>
> Maybe SmartGit guys should make it less obvious to use the feature.
>
> On 10/3/11 4:43 PM, "Ben Vesco" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >I have been through the same thing in my organization.
> >
> >Force push is not made easier or more dangerous by SmartGit. My team was
> >split between command line SmartGit and a few other graphical clients. We
> >actually saw more problems from command line people using force than from
> >graphical client people. The problem is not SmartGit, the problem is
> >people
> >not understanding how dangerous the force push can be.
> >
> >Ultimately we "solved" the problem by having two repositories. The release
> >repo was where everyone pulled from, but we had a dev repo that was forked
> >from there. Pushing was only done to the dev repo, no one had push rights
> >to
> >the release repo. Code only went to the release repo through pull requests
> >from dev to release where a merge master would perform the merge and did
> >have write rights to the release repo.
> >
> >Train your people not to use force push.
> >
> >A review of your git process might also be in order. We had two teams
> >working on git. One team never had to do force pushes on anything and
> >didn't
> >have these types of problems. The other team had people force pushing as a
> >regular part of their recovery process. The only difference between teams
> >was the process put in place for reviewing, merging and pushing code. The
> >team that didn't have problems had a sane and simple process. The other
> >team
> >had a more involved process with multiple steps which made it likely to
> >need
> >a force push or other recovery steps. Develop SCM process and practices
> >for
> >git that will not require people to do force pushes.
> >
> >Force push is not required when using git. You are experiencing a hybrid
> >problem that is one part training/understanding and one part
> >git fundamentals. You can't fix git, but you can fix training.
> >
> >
> >On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 12:13 PM, real <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> **
> >>
> >>
> >> We see every new smartgit user hit this near-catastrophe at some time:
> >> 1) They do a push and either press the "force" checkbox, or when the
> >> "are you sure" dialog comes up that allows a force push, they push it.
> >> 2) a --force push has happened, the public repository has now lost
> >> history, when this happens panic and outrage ensue
> >> 3) the call goes out to ban the use of smartgit in our orgainization
> >> because it's too easy to force a push
> >> Q1) Is there a way in smartgit to either A) turn off the force option so
> >> it's not there at all, or B) make it really really really really really
> >> hard for cause a --force push to happen?
> >> Q2) If Q1 doesn't have an answer, do you know a way on the server (we're
> >> using gitosis) to prevent forced push from happening on it?
> >> We're continually in danger of having smartgit use banned, and I would
> >> hate having to go back to the command line. So an answer to Q1 or Q2
> >> would be real nice.
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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Re: How to disable force, or make it very very very very hard to do?

syntevo Support
We think about adding a VM option to disable such dangerous commands. This should allow administrator to limit SmartGit to less dangerous behavior.

--
Best regards,
Thomas Singer
=============
syntevo GmbH
http://www.syntevo.com
http://blog.syntevo.com


10/04/2011 09:40 - Mike Ralphson wrote:

> I'd like to add my voice to those calling for a way to disable force on push.
>
> In fact, I'd ideally like a beginner / expert setting in SmartGit
> which disabled forced pushes, cherry picking, squashed merges and all
> submodule options (unless the project currently has submodules).
>
> Mike
>
> On 4 October 2011 00:50, Prakash Nadar <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > While it is true that it is the people who use the force option, but I
> > have heard complains in my org as well who use SmartGit and force push
> > their changes.
> >
> > So it looks like doing force push is easier on SmartGit than typing
> > --force on the CLI
> >
> > Maybe SmartGit guys should make it less obvious to use the feature.
> >
> > On 10/3/11 4:43 PM, "Ben Vesco" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > >I have been through the same thing in my organization.
> > >
> > >Force push is not made easier or more dangerous by SmartGit. My team was
> > >split between command line SmartGit and a few other graphical clients. We
> > >actually saw more problems from command line people using force than from
> > >graphical client people. The problem is not SmartGit, the problem is
> > >people
> > >not understanding how dangerous the force push can be.
> > >
> > >Ultimately we "solved" the problem by having two repositories. The release
> > >repo was where everyone pulled from, but we had a dev repo that was forked
> > >from there. Pushing was only done to the dev repo, no one had push rights
> > >to
> > >the release repo. Code only went to the release repo through pull requests
> > >from dev to release where a merge master would perform the merge and did
> > >have write rights to the release repo.
> > >
> > >Train your people not to use force push.
> > >
> > >A review of your git process might also be in order. We had two teams
> > >working on git. One team never had to do force pushes on anything and
> > >didn't
> > >have these types of problems. The other team had people force pushing as a
> > >regular part of their recovery process. The only difference between teams
> > >was the process put in place for reviewing, merging and pushing code. The
> > >team that didn't have problems had a sane and simple process. The other
> > >team
> > >had a more involved process with multiple steps which made it likely to
> > >need
> > >a force push or other recovery steps. Develop SCM process and practices
> > >for
> > >git that will not require people to do force pushes.
> > >
> > >Force push is not required when using git. You are experiencing a hybrid
> > >problem that is one part training/understanding and one part
> > >git fundamentals. You can't fix git, but you can fix training.
> > >
> > >
> > >On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 12:13 PM, real <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > >> **
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> We see every new smartgit user hit this near-catastrophe at some time:
> > >> 1) They do a push and either press the "force" checkbox, or when the
> > >> "are you sure" dialog comes up that allows a force push, they push it.
> > >> 2) a --force push has happened, the public repository has now lost
> > >> history, when this happens panic and outrage ensue
> > >> 3) the call goes out to ban the use of smartgit in our orgainization
> > >> because it's too easy to force a push
> > >> Q1) Is there a way in smartgit to either A) turn off the force option so
> > >> it's not there at all, or B) make it really really really really really
> > >> hard for cause a --force push to happen?
> > >> Q2) If Q1 doesn't have an answer, do you know a way on the server (we're
> > >> using gitosis) to prevent forced push from happening on it?
> > >> We're continually in danger of having smartgit use banned, and I would
> > >> hate having to go back to the command line. So an answer to Q1 or Q2
> > >> would be real nice.
> > >>
> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >------------------------------------
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
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Re: How to disable force, or make it very very very very hard to do?

Eugene Kashpureff
Conceptually, I believe that disabling Force from SmartGit is the wrong way to do things - SmartGit's setting can be bypassed by opening a command prompt.

There is an existing option which can be set server-side which will deny forced pushes: receive.denyNonFastForwards. Enforcing this behavior server-side is far more stable and secure as a long-term solution than doing so client-side. However, if the user still has shell access to the repository, they could potentially disable this setting and push anyway.

You could also alter the workflow to prevent the possibility of individual developers contaminating the primary branch(usually "master"). A server tool such as gitolite can be configured to allow users to push only into their own branches of a repository, from which a project manager can pull changes and merge into the primary branch.

Enforcement of working conventions in an organization is a task far deeper and more complex than "checking a box in SmartGit", and should be treated with appropriate gravity. Disabling of advanced features such as Submodules would be welcome, but relying upon it to ensure nobody "screws everything up" would be reckless at best.

--- In [hidden email], syntevo Support <smartgit@...> wrote:

>
> We think about adding a VM option to disable such dangerous commands. This should allow administrator to limit SmartGit to less dangerous behavior.
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Thomas Singer
> =============
> syntevo GmbH
> http://www.syntevo.com
> http://blog.syntevo.com
>
>
> 10/04/2011 09:40 - Mike Ralphson wrote:
>
> > I'd like to add my voice to those calling for a way to disable force on push.
> >
> > In fact, I'd ideally like a beginner / expert setting in SmartGit
> > which disabled forced pushes, cherry picking, squashed merges and all
> > submodule options (unless the project currently has submodules).
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > On 4 October 2011 00:50, Prakash Nadar <pnadar@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > While it is true that it is the people who use the force option, but I
> > > have heard complains in my org as well who use SmartGit and force push
> > > their changes.
> > >
> > > So it looks like doing force push is easier on SmartGit than typing
> > > --force on the CLI
> > >
> > > Maybe SmartGit guys should make it less obvious to use the feature.
> > >
> > > On 10/3/11 4:43 PM, "Ben Vesco" <bvesco@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > >I have been through the same thing in my organization.
> > > >
> > > >Force push is not made easier or more dangerous by SmartGit. My team was
> > > >split between command line SmartGit and a few other graphical clients. We
> > > >actually saw more problems from command line people using force than from
> > > >graphical client people. The problem is not SmartGit, the problem is
> > > >people
> > > >not understanding how dangerous the force push can be.
> > > >
> > > >Ultimately we "solved" the problem by having two repositories. The release
> > > >repo was where everyone pulled from, but we had a dev repo that was forked
> > > >from there. Pushing was only done to the dev repo, no one had push rights
> > > >to
> > > >the release repo. Code only went to the release repo through pull requests
> > > >from dev to release where a merge master would perform the merge and did
> > > >have write rights to the release repo.
> > > >
> > > >Train your people not to use force push.
> > > >
> > > >A review of your git process might also be in order. We had two teams
> > > >working on git. One team never had to do force pushes on anything and
> > > >didn't
> > > >have these types of problems. The other team had people force pushing as a
> > > >regular part of their recovery process. The only difference between teams
> > > >was the process put in place for reviewing, merging and pushing code. The
> > > >team that didn't have problems had a sane and simple process. The other
> > > >team
> > > >had a more involved process with multiple steps which made it likely to
> > > >need
> > > >a force push or other recovery steps. Develop SCM process and practices
> > > >for
> > > >git that will not require people to do force pushes.
> > > >
> > > >Force push is not required when using git. You are experiencing a hybrid
> > > >problem that is one part training/understanding and one part
> > > >git fundamentals. You can't fix git, but you can fix training.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 12:13 PM, real <brent.noorda@...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> **
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> We see every new smartgit user hit this near-catastrophe at some time:
> > > >> 1) They do a push and either press the "force" checkbox, or when the
> > > >> "are you sure" dialog comes up that allows a force push, they push it.
> > > >> 2) a --force push has happened, the public repository has now lost
> > > >> history, when this happens panic and outrage ensue
> > > >> 3) the call goes out to ban the use of smartgit in our orgainization
> > > >> because it's too easy to force a push
> > > >> Q1) Is there a way in smartgit to either A) turn off the force option so
> > > >> it's not there at all, or B) make it really really really really really
> > > >> hard for cause a --force push to happen?
> > > >> Q2) If Q1 doesn't have an answer, do you know a way on the server (we're
> > > >> using gitosis) to prevent forced push from happening on it?
> > > >> We're continually in danger of having smartgit use banned, and I would
> > > >> hate having to go back to the command line. So an answer to Q1 or Q2
> > > >> would be real nice.
> > > >>
> > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>


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Re: How to disable force, or make it very very very very hard to do?

Prakash Nadar
The idea is to make the option less easy/obvious to use when pushing changes on a day to day use case from SmartGit.

-prakash

From: Eugene Kashpureff <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>
Reply-To: "[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>" <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 10:35:45 -0700
To: "[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>" <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>>
Subject: [smartgit] Re: How to disable force, or make it very very very very hard to do?



Conceptually, I believe that disabling Force from SmartGit is the wrong way to do things - SmartGit's setting can be bypassed by opening a command prompt.

There is an existing option which can be set server-side which will deny forced pushes: receive.denyNonFastForwards. Enforcing this behavior server-side is far more stable and secure as a long-term solution than doing so client-side. However, if the user still has shell access to the repository, they could potentially disable this setting and push anyway.

You could also alter the workflow to prevent the possibility of individual developers contaminating the primary branch(usually "master"). A server tool such as gitolite can be configured to allow users to push only into their own branches of a repository, from which a project manager can pull changes and merge into the primary branch.

Enforcement of working conventions in an organization is a task far deeper and more complex than "checking a box in SmartGit", and should be treated with appropriate gravity. Disabling of advanced features such as Submodules would be welcome, but relying upon it to ensure nobody "screws everything up" would be reckless at best.

--- In [hidden email]<mailto:smartgit%40yahoogroups.com>, syntevo Support <smartgit@...> wrote:

>
> We think about adding a VM option to disable such dangerous commands. This should allow administrator to limit SmartGit to less dangerous behavior.
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Thomas Singer
> =============
> syntevo GmbH
> http://www.syntevo.com
> http://blog.syntevo.com
>
>
> 10/04/2011 09:40 - Mike Ralphson wrote:
>
> > I'd like to add my voice to those calling for a way to disable force on push.
> >
> > In fact, I'd ideally like a beginner / expert setting in SmartGit
> > which disabled forced pushes, cherry picking, squashed merges and all
> > submodule options (unless the project currently has submodules).
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > On 4 October 2011 00:50, Prakash Nadar <pnadar@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > While it is true that it is the people who use the force option, but I
> > > have heard complains in my org as well who use SmartGit and force push
> > > their changes.
> > >
> > > So it looks like doing force push is easier on SmartGit than typing
> > > --force on the CLI
> > >
> > > Maybe SmartGit guys should make it less obvious to use the feature.
> > >
> > > On 10/3/11 4:43 PM, "Ben Vesco" <bvesco@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > >I have been through the same thing in my organization.
> > > >
> > > >Force push is not made easier or more dangerous by SmartGit. My team was
> > > >split between command line SmartGit and a few other graphical clients. We
> > > >actually saw more problems from command line people using force than from
> > > >graphical client people. The problem is not SmartGit, the problem is
> > > >people
> > > >not understanding how dangerous the force push can be.
> > > >
> > > >Ultimately we "solved" the problem by having two repositories. The release
> > > >repo was where everyone pulled from, but we had a dev repo that was forked
> > > >from there. Pushing was only done to the dev repo, no one had push rights
> > > >to
> > > >the release repo. Code only went to the release repo through pull requests
> > > >from dev to release where a merge master would perform the merge and did
> > > >have write rights to the release repo.
> > > >
> > > >Train your people not to use force push.
> > > >
> > > >A review of your git process might also be in order. We had two teams
> > > >working on git. One team never had to do force pushes on anything and
> > > >didn't
> > > >have these types of problems. The other team had people force pushing as a
> > > >regular part of their recovery process. The only difference between teams
> > > >was the process put in place for reviewing, merging and pushing code. The
> > > >team that didn't have problems had a sane and simple process. The other
> > > >team
> > > >had a more involved process with multiple steps which made it likely to
> > > >need
> > > >a force push or other recovery steps. Develop SCM process and practices
> > > >for
> > > >git that will not require people to do force pushes.
> > > >
> > > >Force push is not required when using git. You are experiencing a hybrid
> > > >problem that is one part training/understanding and one part
> > > >git fundamentals. You can't fix git, but you can fix training.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 12:13 PM, real <brent.noorda@...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> **
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> We see every new smartgit user hit this near-catastrophe at some time:
> > > >> 1) They do a push and either press the "force" checkbox, or when the
> > > >> "are you sure" dialog comes up that allows a force push, they push it.
> > > >> 2) a --force push has happened, the public repository has now lost
> > > >> history, when this happens panic and outrage ensue
> > > >> 3) the call goes out to ban the use of smartgit in our orgainization
> > > >> because it's too easy to force a push
> > > >> Q1) Is there a way in smartgit to either A) turn off the force option so
> > > >> it's not there at all, or B) make it really really really really really
> > > >> hard for cause a --force push to happen?
> > > >> Q2) If Q1 doesn't have an answer, do you know a way on the server (we're
> > > >> using gitosis) to prevent forced push from happening on it?
> > > >> We're continually in danger of having smartgit use banned, and I would
> > > >> hate having to go back to the command line. So an answer to Q1 or Q2
> > > >> would be real nice.
> > > >>
> > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

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